AGMM Q&A (Ctd) 0:00:00 Sunday Folayan: Thank you. Next resolution? 0:00:03 Haitham El Nakhal: It's regarding the election guidelines review. The Board resolved to adopt the election guidelines review as proposed by Mr. Mark Elkins, with minor changes. The bylaws to change it to put a chair in the election committee and the Chair of the election committee to announce the election. 0:00:21 Sunday Folayan: Next resolution? 0:00:23 Haitham El Nakhal: It's regarding to the strategic plan. 0:00:26 Sunday Folayan: Thank you. 0:00:27 Haitham El Nakhal: From 2015 to 2019. 0:00:30 Sunday Folayan: Next resolution? 0:00:32 Haitham El Nakhal: The Board resolved to adopt the final version of the strategic plan as outcome of the process and involving the community, and the staff and the Board. 0:00:41 Sunday Folayan: Next resolution? 0:00:43 Haitham El Nakhal: The board resolved that AFRINIC will sponsor only the Chair of COE to every meeting. The points that you mentioned are satisfactory, the sponsorship may be increased and extended to other COE members. 0:00:58 Sunday Folayan: Next resolution? 0:01:00 Haitham El Nakhal: It's regarding to the audit committee. The Board resolved to approve the charter of the remuneration and compensation committee. 0:01:08 Sunday Folayan: Next resolution? 0:01:09 Haitham El Nakhal : The board requested the remuneration and compensation committee to review the current staff salary increase policy. 0:01:17 Sunday Folayan: Next resolution? 0:01:19 Haitham El Nakhal: It's regarding to the 2015 ____ proposal. The Board resolved to adopt 2015 ____ as presented by the management. That's all resolutions that we had in this meeting. 0:01:34 Sunday Folayan: Thank you very much. I believe members have seen the thread of things, and if a board decides that certain discussions will be off-record, and in reviewing the minutes make them off-record, I do not believe it's a crime. But if a member feels an issue was not properly discussed, then the member should re-table the issue at the next meeting and not try to change the minutes of the meeting against what was discussed when the meeting held. That's it. So, if there are new matters to be discussed, I think they should be discussed as new matter, but not the minutes altered to reflect intentions especially when campaign is the purpose. 0:02:25 Christian Bope: Chair, may I? 0:02:27 Sunday Folayan: Yes, you have the floor. 0:02:29 Christian Bope: Yeah. In principle, I don't have any issue with the minutes, I just want to clarify one thing. Because if you read carefully the minutes, we didn't vote for a change of the Chair, because we reached a consensus. That's why we didn't vote. We reach a consensus after a debate, we decide and reach a consensus. 0:02:52 Sunday Folayan: Order. 0:02:53 Christian Bope: Yeah. 0:02:53 Sunday Folayan: We're not discussing the details of how... Is there anything wrong with the resolution? If there's not, please don't hold members back. If there're new issues, please introduce them as new issues, not as November issues. 0:03:11 Christian Bope: No, Chair. I'm not bringing a new issue. It's just a clarification for our members, just a clarification. Because the feeling I'm getting now, it seems like at November, we're waiting consensus, but in order to finalize the minutes, we need a the consensus, we chose rest of the majority. That's all, that's the issue I can see here. 0:03:32 Sunday Folayan: Thank you, thank you. [French] 0:03:34 Ousmane Moussa Tessa: Thank you very much. Since the chairman understands French, I would like to say that in the process, it seems to me that 209 is missing, is that normal or it's just a mistake? In the document that you have sent, there is 208 and then we didn't have 209. 0:04:10 Sunday Folayan: I think it must be a renumbering error, but... Yes, Omo? 0:04:20 Omo Oaiya: Yeah, Chair. I'm trying to get quite concerned, and I'm thinking, yes, the... It is really important that we sort of behave ourselves, and not let this degenerate into just a breakdown of process. If the Board came together and provided resolutions, I'm very happy with the resolutions. I noticed that the... It was actually proposed by Badru and seconded by yourself, and I think that's enough for me as far as resolutions are concerned. Well, if there's... If in reaching that resolution, despite the NDA, if there is something that's pertinent, that you think the community... Badru says a member of the Board made an admission. If the admission has any bearing on our bylaws, or how we operate, then we need to know. If not, I'm satisfied with the resolutions. 0:05:22 Sunday Folayan: Thank you. Seun? 0:05:23 Seun Ojedeji : Yeah, thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I'll go in line with adding a plus one to the statement of Omo. I'm satisfied with the... With what has been presented. However, if there is something that Badru thinks was not said correctly, I think Board has a process to reveal this thing within themselves. So, Badru should go to the Board, discuss it. If you need to remove the guy that said it within the board, penalize him for that. Please, let us move on. Thank you. 0:06:06 Sunday Folayan: Thank you. [applause] 0:06:10 Nii Quaynor: Mr. Chairman. 0:06:11 Sunday Folayan: Yes, Prof, you're recognised sir, Please. 0:06:13 Nii Quaynor: Thank you. I'm beginning to get the feeling that the NDA has disappeared. And let me explain, I'm holding here a mail I publicly received from a board member and I received it in a bulk mail. And that member disclosed this very discussion and he said, I'll only pick the part "We saw then... We saw that the then Chairmanship had become non-effective and difficult to follow in addressing critical issues of the board." So the NDA has already been thrown away not only to members, but to the entire public. So, I find it difficult by principal now turning around and applying it on a different board member, you see what I'm saying? So if you want to go by NDA then none of this should have gone public at all, at all. 0:07:14 Nii Quaynor: If you choose not to go by NDA, then the whole big swoosh should go public. And this is what is generating these questions of trust and so on, you see. So, I think the suggestion that you should take time and resolve internally is one possible approach, but by and large we're degrading the trust between the community and the board as we continue to deliberate this. Okay? So, either to resolve it or we will resolve it for you, which is a motion that is on the table, okay? There's a motion on the table that if you don't go to resolve it, we'll get you all out. 0:08:05 Sunday Folayan: Thank you Prof, before I give the floor to Mike, let me just make a little clarification on what professor Quaynor just said. The board really has the item on its agenda to be discussed at the face to face meeting here. But we didn't get to it because of the other issues we needed to process. So yes, that will be discussed. It's on the agenda. Mike? 0:08:38 Mike Silber: Chair, thank you. Chair, I'm really concerned that we're not moving forward. What it sounds to me like, not having been there and not having other than as Nii indicated, a possible breach of the NDA. What I'm guessing happened, is some discussion in a board meeting which may or may have not been off the record, and which board members possibly didn't exercise adequate discipline in indicating clearly what was and wasn't off the record at the time it was said and then now invoking as they're entitled a right to privacy and a right to privilege with regards to off the record conversations. And I think we as the community need to understand that this is an indication of dysfunction in the board. Now, to me the answer is not to spoil the entire board. I think we need to really rely on this board to be able to work in a collegial manner to try and move forward. 0:09:46 Mike Silber: If there is an accusation of malfeasance or breach of the bylaws by any board member, then we do have processes, and those processes can't be raised from the floor or moved in this meeting. We need to follow the bylaws and we need to follow the Mauritius Companies Act. So I really suggest, I really do understand where Badru is coming from. If there were admissions of malfeasance made, then let's raise them in the appropriate context, let's move a motion to remove the board member so that these allegations can come up, but this is not the time or place. 0:10:26 Mike Silber: The Companies Act has a specific process to deal with that so let's raise it, let him work with counsel to get that moving forward, but otherwise we're stuck in a meeting here where we're just going round and round and unable to move forward. And I don't want to spill this forward because there's important work that needs to happen and this issue at the moment is preventing the community and the board moving forward with really important work. This is not the only important issue on the table right now. 0:10:56 Sunday Folayan: Thank you. Fiona? 0:10:58 Fiona Asonga: In addition to what Mike Silber just said I think the honours was on the board to have taken disciplinary action on your colleague who went public with the discussion that we do not know that was on the record or off the record or was his opinion on whatever happened during that board meeting, as a matter of respect to his counterparts. Badru has every right to insist that everything be public, why? Because, the board has failed to take disciplinary action on Paulos. And let us not pretend we do not know what is going on. So before these elections, I think the community also expected some response, some action from the board. We have not seen that. And as a result we are now caught up by a viscous cycle, we're just going around in cycles and no one wants to proceed to the next level, but the truth is, you guys are failing us. 0:11:58 Fiona Asonga: And if those... In this case, if anything needed to have been done, the person who sent out the email should have already come forward, apologized, because if it is not a fact then you should apologize to the community and to the person whose name was, you raised in the email. It is wrong for us to conduct business that way, and it's really an issue of ethics, where are our standards, where are our ethics? 0:12:27 Sunday Folayan: Thank you. Frank? 0:12:29 Frank Habitch: Frank from Tanzania, I would like to second what Mike Silber said, I believe strongly that the board can deal with the issue that is at hand, that disclosure. And I would like to also... I recognize that there has been a lot on the table of the board in the last few days that's why I still hope and believe it will be resolved by the board, and I would like to move forward in the program, and I would like to note that the same board position is up for election, I believe. 0:13:09 Sunday Folayan: Thank you, Seun? 0:13:11 Seun Odejeji: Thank you very much Mr. Chair. I think there is a problem here, and the problem is not just... It's not one person, it looks like it's to the entire board. While we were discussing, a mail went to the members list. I will read a section of that mail. "Proposed resolution: Considering the statements made by Andrew Alston that for him to be elected on the board, he has convinced companies who have money and are ready to pay to cover the travel cost of few people to travel to Djibouti to attend the AGM and vote for him. Considering the fact that no one on the board knows which premises Andrew has made to convince these companies to spend money on his election, which is a source of clear conflict of interest. Considering that such situation constitutes a manipulation of the voting system and poses a serious question on the integrity of the vote. Call for a vote of no confidence in Andrew Alston to continue to serve on the board. Call for the board to organize a new election to replace the seat that will be vacated by Andrew Alston." This means... 0:14:39 Sunday Folayan: Please don't stop there, keep reading to the end. Since you started reading, read all the way to the end, thank you. 0:14:47 Seun Odejeji: Thank you Mr. Chair. After discussion, John... Permit me, apologies if I don't pronounce the name well... "John Walubengo proposed that Sunday Folayan be chair, Badru Ntege, vice chair, and Andrew Alston and Christian D. Bope to withdraw their motions and resolutions for votes of no confidence. Badru Ntege decided to step down as chair for the interest of both the community and peace. And I think the resolution which you have presented follows." So do you still want me to keep reading? 0:15:30 Sunday Folayan: Keep reading since you are reading so we get to the end. 0:15:35 Seun Odejeji: "The board has taken cognizance that Mr. Badru Ntege has stepped down as chairman of AFRINIC board unanimously resolved to appoint Mr. Sunday Folayan as chairman of the board. To appoint Mr. Badru Ntege as vice chair of the board effective as from Sunday 23rd, November 2014. Resolution proposed by Badru Ntege, seconded by Sunday Folayan." I would like to stop there, I wouldn't want to continue. But my point really is that the board is currently not following its rules. 0:16:21 Seun Odejeji: You have NDAs that means that this is the second violation of NDA. That also means that what... If you guys, based on what was proposed, if indeed Andrew said what was in this text, then it means that there is a problem. It means that we have to really, really ask you guys to leave this place right now and go into one room and resolve yourself, and when you come back we will remove you guys. Because I don't understand why you sent this to the public. I don't get it. 0:17:02 Sunday Folayan: Can you please tell us who sent that... 0:17:05 Seun Odejeji: This was sent by Badru. 0:17:08 Sunday Folayan: But right now note the fact that Badru is exercising his right as a member. So... 0:17:16 Seun Odejeji: Excuse me Mr. Chair, I think we need to declare about some things, it looks like this doubling of member and board is creating some confusion and making it look like the board can actually do anything it wants, and you actually have immunity. Please take note that you are a team and if one person out of you comes out to say this, it means that your community is broken. It means that you are broken so you need to fix yourself. If it means that you need to remove these people, remove them and let's continue. Thank you. 0:18:00 Haiyham El Nakhal: Seun, please. Please Mr. Chair. Seun, Seun, please. 0:18:05 Sunday Folayan: No, no, no, no, no. Okay. 0:18:06 Haiyham El Nakhal: Please Seun, before you judge on your point and the work that we did, please read it to the end. Don't read half of the papers, and then make a judgement on it, it's not right. 0:18:21 S?: Chair. 0:18:22 Haiyham El Nakhal: Read it to the end. 0:18:22 Sunday Folayan: Okay. Members, what we shall do, this board shall request for a 10 minute recess, if you please. 0:18:35 S?: Thank you Chair. 0:18:35 Seun Odejeji: That's fine. Thank you. [background conversation] 0:43:01 Sunday Folayan: Please can we ask members outside to come in. The board meeting is over. [background conversation] 0:43:34 Sunday Folayan: Thank you very much. Members, thank you for your patience with this board. Thank you for your understanding. May I please request... Badru could you ask those outside to please come in, that we're done. [background conversation] 0:45:16 Sunday Folayan: Thank you. May we resume? May we resume the meeting? [background conversation] 0:45:40 Sunday Folayan: We just had the Board meeting and as a result of that board meeting, Paulos and Badru have statements to make to the community. So I'll start with Paulos. Paulos? [background conversation] 0:46:04 Sunday Folayan: Okay. Ah okay. [pause] 0:46:31 Paulos Nyirenda: So, I can proceed? 0:46:32 Sunday Folayan: Yes, Paulos, proceed. 0:46:37 Paulos Nyirenda: Thank you Chair. So the issue of the NDA was on the board agenda. And for this week and... I think you heard from the board Chair that we didn't get to it on the agenda because of the other pressing issues that were before it. And I was willing to go with the decision of the board, on this issue. So the Board has now taken a decision. And I would like to start by saying that the truth hurts, and I would like to apologize if the truth did hurt anyone, but it is the truth. And following the board Meeting that just took place 10 minutes ago, I will step down from the board, on this issue, based on the decision of the board. Thank you! [applause] 0:47:55 Sunday Folayan: Thank you very much Paulos. Badru? 0:48:00 Badru Ntege: Hello? Hello? Okay. Let... [pause] 0:48:23 Badru Ntege: Members, I was voted onto this board on an issue of integrity and to serve this board, and serving the community. Serving the community means being true to the community to the last minute. We're representing Africa, and the rest of the community. So the privilege of being on the board means that we're supposed to hold that office with the highest esteem. To me, the highest esteem means to uphold their values and the values of integrity and the values of organization. It doesn't mean that because you're my friend, I will accept particular areas of not coming up to step. 0:49:07 Badru Ntege: As a chair of the board, there're certain responsibilities I had. Those responsibilities meant that at times you meant that you were not gonna be as popular to everybody as possible, the task was to make sure that when we got in into, if you remember Lusaka, we had some issues that were resolved and we promised the community that we're gonna work towards getting it right. We worked a lot, went with the CEO and we moved forward. A number of unpopular decisions were made and I was not on the board to be popular to my members as on the... To my board members, I was on the board to deliver results. 0:49:50 Badru Ntege: The motion that was brought by Andrew, there's a culmination of many misdemeanours that Andrew as a new member of the board [0:50:00] ____. I stood still 'cause I was the chair of the board, and my key thing was delivery. The reason that I accepted on that day to resign, it was, we asked for a... The meeting in Mauritius was supposed to be a culmination where we as board members, cleared our differences. I called for a meeting that was supposed set in the afternoon, but the morning was supposed with the board members to come into the room, discuss openly and then we clear our differences, and we'll continue to do our work as board members. This was a result of a total breakdown of relationship led by Andrew, three months prior to that, where we had a priori board members. Now, unfortunately that morning, we were not allowed to actually discuss and clear and understand our differences, because Mr. Alston walked in and tabled a motion. Yes, we've been asked by a lot members that we should be able to clear this internally. 0:51:11 Badru Ntege: I'm a professional, to me integrity is important, but respect for each other is more important. And relationships are important. When that failed, Mr. Alston tabled a motion which failed. I'm not sure that motion was shared with you, and my... It was voted in and failed immediately he tabled a vote of no confidence which deadlocked. Next to that, I had members telling me that as long as I was board member... As chair, the board was gonna be in a deadlock board. 0:51:51 Badru Ntege: Members, we had a task in November where we had a CEO who had resigned, and I had to make sure that I lead the board to be able to go through a recruitment process of a new CEO. The job at hand at that point was to get a new CEO. For me, leadership is not a title. Chairman is not a title, it is a case how do we lead the board and how do we get a CEO in place? Which resulted in me deciding to table the motion that Sunday, my vice, takes over and I became vice. Members, that enabled us to succeed and get into a process where we now have a new CEO. However, from an ethical point of view, there're certain things that I don't think we should hide from you as members. 0:52:50 Badru Ntege: This organization does not belong to the people sitting in front of you. You will trust them to look after it on your behalf. And on the behalf of the silent people who ____ over here, those who do not have... And I think somebody said, the 1000 members who are not here, it is not the 12 of us sitting up there who own this relation... This board. 0:53:16 Badru Ntege: We have taken a particular approach on the board where we are the masters. Right? And we... There's a new... And you as members, need to follow what we say. From an ethical and a moral point of view, I cannot live with that. I have served this community for 13 years, and I wish to serve it a little longer, but I'm not gonna serve this community when I know I cannot sleep with myself from an integrity point of view. So, this morning we kept on continuing and we played with the words. I'm not very good with words. 0:53:56 Badru Ntege: I believe in being faithful and straight to you and looking in your straight face and telling you the truth. Which is why with the failure of that, yes, there were people on the floor who were proposing other things. The same people who were asking us for governance and morality yesterday are now changing their stances. If we cannot show this within the board as members of the board, as people that ____... 0:54:26 Sunday Folayan: Badru, how many minutes do you need to... 0:54:28 Badru Ntege: I will be concluding in two minutes, sir. 0:54:30 Sunday Folayan: Thank you. I can see the body language of members they want it done with. 0:54:33 Badru Ntege: Thank you, thank you for that. Thank you for that. So, I was forced to do what I need to do and I only shared the very little information, there's a lot more information that needed to be shared which gave you the full story of that day. So in that case if I need to resign to do that, yes, I will step down from the board, and I have stepped down from the board. But I do believe that there're deeper issues as a community you need to solve. Thank you. 0:55:10 Sunday Folayan: Thank you very much Badru. [applause] 0:55:18 Sunday Folayan: I'd like to inform the community that the board has always made deep efforts to cleanse itself. But sometimes few words are more honourable than long stories. Having said that, at the meeting we held just when we asked for recess, the board decided that members who violated the NDA should step down. And so, members who have violated the NDA have done what is honourable. We also discussed the fact that there is some integrity issues hanging around the neck of Mr. Andrew Alston and we would like to deal with it, but by the bylaws and Company Act put together, we need to convene a meeting with two weeks' notice if we have to remove any member by resolution. We have therefore voted as a board to convene that meeting within the next two weeks to deal with the issue of the continued presence of Mr. Andrew Alston on the board of AFRINIC. Having said that, I'd like to say that we continue with the business of the Annual General Meeting. I would allow Andrew make a short statement. 0:57:00 Mike Silber: Chair, if I may just before that happens. 0:57:02 Sunday Folayan: Okay, Mike. 0:57:03 Mike Silber: Mike Silber, Liquid Telecom. The accusations made and the allegations made seem to indicate certain malfeasance on the part of Liquid Telecom I'd like to place on record that Liquid Telecom has not bought or paid for or in any way manipulated the voting process within this organization. I'd like that it to be very clearly stated as regards in the allegations against Andrew, those are allegations that Andrew will need to deal with ____. He's behind me and he wants to respond. But in terms of Liquid Telecom that's not how we do business, our hands are clean and we're more than happy to cooperate with any process to demonstrate that. 0:57:46 Sunday Folayan: Thank you. Andrew? 0:57:49 Andrew Alston: Members, I make this statement today because I think that certain things need to be responded to and I gave a long and hard thought to actually making the statement at the beginning of the meeting and chose not to, because I would have preferred to actually be asked. Be asked directly by this community, what actually happened there and what I actually said. And I think that it is only fair that I'd be allowed to state my version of this so that the community can judge for itself. 0:58:29 Andrew Alston: So what I... Yes, did I say that I organized for people to be in the room, to carry proxies? I did. Did I go and say to people, "Will you give proxies and if you do they will be exercised?" I did. However, did I instruct anybody carrying those proxies on how to vote? No, I did not. And there were members on this floor who will testify to that fact who were holding the proxies which were organized. 0:59:11 Andrew Alston: Yes, there were a lot of people in that room. However, that being said, did I pay anyone to be there? No, I did not. And I never ever ever stated that I did. What I did say, and in the emails that went out requesting proxies, is did we have people, I have people on the floor. And if you wish to have your voice heard and you choose not to use electronic voting because they were fears with electronic voting about the fact that IDs had to be submitted and there is evidence that IDs were not being adequately protected. That there were people on the floor that could hold those proxies. 1:00:00 Andrew Alston: We also stated in there that those people would exercise their proxies as they saw fit. Is that an integrity issue? I leave that to the community to decide, but I argue that by saying that I had people on the floor to carry votes that members willingly gave to those people, that is not an integrity issue. And I would also argue that anybody who states that this election was in any way bought or paid for is in effect saying that those who issued the proxies are open to be bought, it is costing a doubt on the very members who chose to put their signatures behind those proxies. It is costing doubt on the very people who gave those proxies. And in my country there is a word for that, it's called slander. [pause] [background conversation] 1:01:21 Frank Habitch: Sorry for that. Frank Habicht, Tanzania Internet Service Providers Association. I believe that some people might recognize me, seeing me relatively often discussing stuff with Andrew Alston and conclude or believe that I might be one of those people that might have received proxies and voted in one way or another. I would like to say that in Djibouti last year, I did carry one or two proxies that we received for communication which Andrew was part of but I never received any flights or hotel or money or anything and anything at all and was never ever instructed to vote any way and voted according to my own beliefs and positions. 1:02:14 Sunday Folayan: Thank you, Frank. Seun. 1:02:17 Seun Odejeji: Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is Seun Ojedeji. I like to note that I think what the two members that stepped down did is not the decision of the board. It's an honourable thing they've done by stepping down. In that case, based on the circumstances surrounding Andrew's issue, I would like him to honourably step down as well. Let Andrew honourably do the same and step down. Thank you very much. 1:02:57 Sunday Folayan: Thank you, Seun. Dewole? 1:03:00 Dewole Ajao: Good morning. Dewole Ajao, Nigeria ICT Forum. My comment is that if there were indeed issues and the board has waited for more than 24 hours of outcry from the community before commissioning an inquiry or whatever it is then the entire board is complicit in this whole matter. Thank you. 1:03:20 Sunday Folayan: Thank you. Nishal. [applause] 1:03:28 Nishal Goburdhan: Nishal Goburdhan, Internet Service Providers Association of South Africa ____. Mr. Chair, first, congratulations on taking a decision which is what we'd ask for before lunch along lines that makes sense to you. Again, at least for me, it shows that we place trust in people that are willing to act. So my congratulations to you for that. [applause] 1:03:49 Nishal Goburdhan: The second part of what I'd like to say is, I have carried proxies for multiple board members, many of whom are sitting on this table right now. At no time ever have I accepted money, flights, dancing girls or anything like that from any of the people here. I've always voted in what I believe is my best interest and I'm glad to see that the decisive steps you're taking, the actions that you're taking now are in our benefit. Thank you. 1:04:12 Sunday Folayan: Thank you. Yes, sir. [French] 1:04:31 Emanuel Adjovi: What I'm noticing since yesterday is that there is a lot of ____ things in the African house. We can see a system like the ____ FIFA one, and everyone knows how the system ended up at FIFA starting from this moment. I believe that that word has a responsibility for the future of AFRINIC if the board members are aware of this future and if they believe that they are concerned of the community and the development of the internet in Africa, on the name of the African continent, I'm begging them to resign so that we could reform Africa. Thank you. 1:05:34 Sunday Folayan: Please, can we use the mics here? Please, that mic is not good. Can we avoid that line, please? Thank you. Please remove the mic from there, so people don't go there. 1:05:48 Fiona Asonga: Fiona Asonga, Telecommunications Service Providers Association of Kenya. I would like to just thank the board for what you've been able to put together in the short time that we have put so much pressure on you. However, I need us to be able to recognize that we have probably been too focused on fighting and trying to bite each other's heads off that we are now eating the fruits of gaps in our policies and procedures. 1:06:20 Fiona Asonga: As I'm an operator of an industrial body in Kenya, we have seen a lot of emails from members who want to be on the board asking for votes. That has been the norm. A lot of the operators are not in this room, which means they either vote online or they have proxies carried in for them. It so happens that the easiest point at which these proxies can be delivered tends to be exchange points or associations, and so, exchange points, associations, and their staff tend to carry a lot of proxies that have put many of you on the board. 1:07:06 Fiona Asonga: We need to look at our procedures. As we clean up, we need to have very clear guidelines of how we need to then be running our campaigns so that emails requesting for votes can be clearly defined and restricted on what they need to enter because there is a lot of hearsay, there's a lot of factual communication, but the mailing lists are open. And if a board member requests to send an email through to the members of the telecommunication association requesting for votes and requesting where they can put in proxies to do so, we have allowed them that. 1:07:54 Fiona Asonga: But I think moving forward, even as the associations who are members of AFRINIC and who come in to represent large groups of the members that the TISPAs, the ISPAs, the TESPOKs and the like, we are going to have to change our engagement with other AFRINIC members, because I think we need to be very clear when we are putting forth accusations that are justifiable and accusations for which there isn't concrete evidence. 1:08:30 Fiona Asonga: I have come for AFRINIC meetings for the last five years. AFRINIC covers my travel costs. There's been no reason for any other operator or a potential board member to foot those costs. And both AFRINIC and the other organizations that I represent would not allow me to receive any payments in any form. When we receive proxies from our members and as an association, we are given the proxies and they will give us instructions on how they want their votes to go. So let us be careful about... To have the clear difference between issues that lean on witch hunting and issues that lean on the facts. 1:09:18 Fiona Asonga: Let the board constitute a committee. Let them investigate. Let us get the facts right before we put in... We table motions and put in proposals. And let us remember, as board members, we have given you certain responsibilities, please carry yourself according to the decorum that is required. One last request, I believe that we have a lady board member who's supposed to be sitting up there. I think it is in good faith that we should have her at the podium. Thank you. 1:09:52 Sunday Folayan: Thank you for everything you said. I will just respond to the issue of the lady board member. She asked for permission from the Chair to be away. Once she comes back into the room, the lady board member will join the board here. So she will be back... Ah, there she comes. So, Aminata, please join us on this side. The community wants to see you here. Thank you. Yes, sir. 1:10:19 Aminata Garba: Chair, I will join the crowd and thank you for coming to a resolution. I agree with Dewole that the board is comflicit in this, but I know it is not practical to suggest that we vacate the board. But I think if you think about the denials or the rejections that the last few speakers have made about receiving any sort of money or tickets from the board member, we can start to see how this is impacting on the community. I think the reasonable thing to do here is to dispel any sort of... Just expunge this completely and start afresh. Two members have stepped down. The last member that's involved in this should just step down and while we try and rebuild this. Thank you. 1:11:19 Sunday Folayan: Thank you. Yes, you have the floor, sir. 1:11:27 Nigel Titley: My name is Nigel Titley. I'm Chairman of the RIPE NCC. May I make a few comments? 1:11:33 Sunday Folayan: Yes, sir. 1:11:34 Nigel Titley: Thank you. I've listened with great sadness to the discussions over the past two days and I like to bring forward a couple of suggestions. Our community and yours is based on mutual respect for each other. I will suggest that you move forward with that in mind. The principle of consensus allows us to move forward even if we don't agree completely. 1:12:01 Nigel Titley: Understanding that, let's just cut through procedural difficulties and move forward to solve our problems. Honesty and transparency are paramount. You've already made steps towards that, please continue that way. And I think I speak for the right community when I say that we will support AFRINIC as it moves forward to the future. I wish you all the best. Thank you. [applause] 1:12:35 Sunday Folayan: Thank you very much for that comment, Nigel. Thank you RIPE NCC. [applause] 1:12:46 Sunday Folayan: Members, there is absolutely no family in this world that doesn't have dirty linens. Where we chose to wash them, is what differentiates us. Yes, there may be issues, but every issue must be discussed, every issue must be resolved. Those in the minority should have their say, those in the majority should have their way, but they should not gloat over the fact that they have their way. We have a responsibility to the community. We have the commitment to be transparent. We have the commitment to be thorough. Maybe we are not even given a chance on so many things. Maybe the strives have overshadowed the little achievements we have made as a board. Maybe we have not even done anything, or maybe we have done quite a lot, but our communication, timing, and process may be the problem. 1:14:09 Sunday Folayan: Members, we have heard you very loud. Members, we have heard you very clear. The commitment to transparency has been made, commitment to openness has been made. There is still a lot to achieve, there is still a lot to be done. We will set machinery in motion to make sure that the requests of the community are complied with and that things are done as requested. Fairness, openness and transparency. The board has agreed to meet in two weeks' time for the purpose of concluding the business that is outstanding. May I request members that we proceed and set in motion mechanisms for addressing all the comments that has arisen from this meeting, so that at the end, those changes we need to make can be properly articulated and put together as a documents that we can use to further strengthen AFRINIC. I would want to recognize Professor Quaynor first, then Andrew, and then Ben. [pause] 1:15:48 Nii Quaynor: Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. Please, I like you to strike out majority and minority from your statements. We are not a political party. We reject things and precedents and voting. 1:16:03 Sunday Folayan: Noted. 1:16:06 Nii Quaynor: So please, I want us to commit to consensus, full stop. 1:16:11 Sunday Folayan: Thank you very much, Prof. Andrew? 1:16:18 Andrew Alston: Members, I have heard two people request that I step down. I have opted not to do this. Not because I am holding on, but because I believe in fair process and I believe that my name will be cleared and I wish to have the opportunity to clear my name, and I believe really strongly that at the meeting in two weeks, I will be able to do that, and I believe that I will be able to walk out with my head held high, having done nothing wrong. And therefore, I am holding to that process purely to clear my name, not because I am holding on. [applause] 1:17:08 Sunday Folayan: Benjamin? 1:17:10 Benjamin Eshun: Thank you, Chair. I would like to make a humble suggestion, as a way to increase the confidence in the community and build consensus on the way forward. I would like to suggest, or whichever way poss... I'm not sure how to move this forward, but in the bylaws, there is section 16.4 which allows the Council of Elders to, what you call, assist you in taking the big decisions. 1:17:35 Benjamin Eshun: And since this is a very sensitive matter, issues of NDA are involved, issues of the community being... What do we call it? Ensuring that all information... Making sure that the issues of the ____ community will have the full confidence on the board, and also other things. I'll suggest that in your two week meeting, you involve the Council of Elders so that we can know that at least all the deliberations were done within all the statutes and all the bylaws of the organization. Thank you. 1:18:01 Sunday Folayan: Thank you very much for that nice suggestion, thank you. Yes ma'am? 1:18:05 Gabriella: Thank you Chair. I am Gabriella, Liquid Telecom, Uganda. I really agree with you when you say you should fix your issues in your own house as a board. If someone has done something wrong, you probably need to address that within your meetings, not the community, but within yourselves. The difference with the other people that have stepped down is that they breached the NDA, you had your argument, they breached it so they stepped down. Now if there is another issue, you probably should handle it in your house and keep us out of it as a community. So could we please move forward with everything else that we should be doing. [applause] 1:18:53 Sunday Folayan: Thank you very much. Members, I see Badru... Oh, okay. I would like to close the mic unless there is additional information which I would give you... That would be the last comment. We need to move on. 1:19:17 Badru Ntege: Thank you Chair. I think the key issue is again we insist on an ethical issue and the fact that as a board we were complicit ant and prepared to keep information away from the community. Integrity and ethical point is that the person in question did agree to the issue without actually being forced to do. So, it's not an accusation, it is a fact. So for us dancing around an issue, what my point again is ethical and a responsibility to the community. Our responsibility to the community is paramount, and I want us to keep that in mind as we proceed because we can't keep on having different words with different issues. There is an issue of ethics and integrity to our community as a point. 1:20:10 Sunday Folayan: Thank you Badru. We have agreed to a meeting in two weeks to address it. Adiel? 1:20:21 Adiel Akplogan: Thank you Chairman. I'm talking in my personal capacity not even as a member, but just as an observer. I have kept my reserve during the whole debate, although I was the CEO at the time of the meeting. But I have decided to exercise my right of reserve and not intervene neither as a member, neither as observer, neither as a CEO. But I just want to say that what I have witnessed over the past few days is painful. It's hard for me honestly to witness. I would just call for good judgement. I would just call, from both sides, I will call for the interest, the common interest of this continent, of this organisation, of this region. That should be our focus. Yesterday I mentioned focus, the focus should be on that. And we should be bold we should be confident enough to take the right decision when needed. I call for good judgement. Thank you. [applause] 1:21:44 Sunday Folayan: Thank you very much for those nice words of wisdom Adiel. Members at the stage, can we proceed to the next item on the agenda. [applause] 1:22:04 Sunday Folayan: The Chair would like to announce that we have consensus. [laughter] 1:22:13 Sunday Folayan: May I invite Boubakar Barry. [background conversation] 1:22:45 S1: Yes, may I...